Spiritual Initiations

<Susanrose> Welcome to the August 9,1998
gathering of )Gaia*Friends( .

Hosting tonight's presentation once again is
Gina from New Zealand. Gina is an author, healer,
world wide teacher. She has chosen the topic
of Spiritual Initiations.

I am happy she has picked this topic.
For many years I search quite a few bookstores,
magical groups, and channeled messages for the REAL
initiation opportunities.
No stone was unturned looking for entry into the most
noble group of initiates. (smile)
My travels took me from into the hills and valleys
of esoteric knowledge.
Crawly, Kaballah, Charismatic Tongues, Wiccan Traditions,
White Brotherhoods, Violet Flamers, Archangel Hierarchies,
as well as natural elemental forces...to name a few.

Like the movie, Raiders of the Lost Arc,
I imagined myself dropped into the lowest level
Of the pyramid tomb, ready to do battle with the
snakes of my shadow self
as well as the enemies of the light.
Hopefully, I would emerge as an Isis Priestess,
an accepted member of the initiated,
white robes a flowing, halo gleaming.

Many of you I know have the same feelings.
I can remember well the excitement of the quest.
Lately though, it has occurred to me that
truth is meant to be simple. My battle cry has
changed from multiplications of abracadabra to

So for me, all spirit is One.
There are signposts along the way, and this initiation
process can be as personal or as public as you
choose to experience it.
So without further rambling, I introduce Gina
who begins with a list of 7 steps that will aid your journey.

<Gina> Thank you Susanrose. To start with the first step:

1/ The Quest;
Changes create the space for us to look
for the finer things in life. Often we don't know
what we are looking for...this I think is a good thing.
One cannot place restrictions upon the Souls journey.

We need always to remember that
it is a journey and not a destination.

What are we looking for?
Who should we listen to?
Do we need a guru?

I feel that we need change to set us upon the path...
The initiation here is to give your self permission to change.
To recognise that you are indeed a spiritual Being
on an upward climb. A climb that will take you
to heights beyond the physical plane of existence into truth.

Listening to people's views and reading books
should be for conformation rather than to
accept all they say. Find your truth and live it.
Do you need a guru? Remember that you are you.
Who else do you need?

The moment you set out on your path,
taking full responsibility for the self,
is the moment that you open the doors
to discover more than you can ever dream of.

<^alex^> so what you are saying
is that rather than ask someone else
for the answers we should be asking ourselves?
<Gina> yes
If you know the question....
you already have the answer
You are only looking for someone to confirm it
<Ana> confirmation...excellent

<Jackie> one we give ourselves permission to change,
do we change even if we don't realise it consciously?
How do we see the changes in our lives?

<^Gina> I feel that sometimes people are not
fully aware of the changes Jackie
They then need someone to point out the sign posts
Most people see changes as not comfortable
and often fight to keep
the known and the old ways there.

2/ The Mystic; Awakening of love.
Once the doors are open wide
you need to make some choices.
Do you want to follow the Head Path...
that of book and intellectual understanding and learning.
Or do you want to follow the Heart Path,
that of experience. The heart is the more difficult path
of the two. It calls for you to stand alone,
to live your truth and to be happy
with who and what you are.

This in turn awakens you to a love of self...
self worth...and a need to move into deeper learning.
If you cannot love and accept the self as you are ...
you cannot love another unconditionally.

<Jackie> how do we handle doubt?
<^Gina> hmmm doubt in self?
<Jackie> yes, or scepticism
<^Gina> one thing I must say here
If you did not have self doubt
then you would have an ego problem
Whatever way we go there are little personality traits to overcome
Doubt appears to go when you stop worrying about it
<Jackie> ok I see...balance is the key...
not to go overboard in doubt or ego?
<^Gina> right on Jackie

3/ The Occult; Attainment of knowledge.

Once you lose the judgements
of others and the self. When you can accept
all things for what they are,
then knowledge and wisdom blend
to become ever greater.
Truth does not change...just our understanding of it.

Many people ask me why do we need to suffer.
Personally I feel we should be able to change
without all the pain. However, would we truly change?
I think not. People do not want the easy path...
they don't believe a thing is worth while
if they don't in some way pay for it.

<Susanrose> Yes Gina! When studies have been
done to see if a certain placebo will eliminate the pain,
the greatest success rate was achieved when the
testers fibbed and told the patients how much more
expensive a certain pill was compared to the other.
All the people thought the supposedly more expensive pill
was more effective in treating their condition.
Neither pill had a medicinal value.

4/ Detachment;
To be detached from your friends and family
does not mean to become cold and uncaring.
It simply means that you see all persons
as your mother, brother, sister and so on.
There can be no difference in your time
and energy spent with people in need.

The old saying many are called and few are chosen.
It is not because we are not good enough
that we are not chosen...
We tend to think "Sorry God, it is after hours now"...
or "Sorry, I am on holiday"...or some other excuse.

Once we have given up fighting
and putting restrictions upon ourselves
we find all works out just fine.
All things needed to live and be happy are supplied.
There is no reason for you not receiving all you need.
People often say to me...Your different...
This is not a good reason why I have what I want
and they don't. All can have ...just give up...
then all will be yours.

<tjmac> give up? let go?
<^Gina> How to give up?
I think that when we become bored with our lives,
when we stop fighting for everything,
then we truly start on the path.
Then along comes a funny change in us...
funny... I think so. I call it spiritual arrogance.
<Ligia> And how do we overcome
this "Spiritual Arrogance"?
<^Gina> Ligia, spiritual arrogance can take some people
a long time to overcome...they think they have arrived
then anything you say to them is not valid

<tjmac> can you describe this letting go?
letting go of ego? of wants? attachments?
<^Gina> letting go of attachments to life...self...ego
It is being able to build something
and walk away
knowing that you have done a good job

<Jackie> I feel its more of letting go of conditions...
of being open to all there is no matter what.
<^alex^> I think this sort of takes one back
to being humble...
<Gina> Yes Alex, spiritual arrogance is when
we think we have arrived at the destination.
When we think there is nothing else to learn...
We stop at that point and do not progress onwards
until we become humble to how little we really know.

5/ Unification; The blending.
I felt that this stage was one of the hardest.
We have to obtain balance in all things.
Most times we have spent the greater part
of our lives out of balance.
Now we try to stay centred.

We need to bring out spiritual beliefs
into our daily life and live it.
This means to express your spiritual self...
not ram your beliefs down every ones throat.
We can go over board and think we know it all
and then swing the other way to knowing
we don't know much at all.

One year I took a small group
into Kashmir and Kathmandu.
On the first meditation, a young man
who had never meditated before had an experience.
He saw himself growing larger and larger
until he was outside of the galaxy
looking back at a small earth.
Then it all changed and he saw himself
growing smaller and smaller
until he was no bigger than an ant.

He sat and cried at what he had experienced...
saying "I feel so small and I don't think I will ever know it all".
No, we won't know it all, however,
our views will be open to the constant changes
and we will grow within them
knowing what is right for us to know.

<Susanrose> Reminds me of the story about the
Buddha of the universe, who was sitting in blissful
Contemplation of his navel. Incredulously, he
was approached by a line of ants. When asked
Who do you think you are to approach me? the ants
proclaimed..."we are the Buddhas of the previous
Universes....ALL of us".

<^alex^> when you reach this point
its where you suddenly experience
just being this itty bitty tiny particle
and realize you are that small a part
of the whole and then very much of it
at the same time...you are AWED
<vajra> so we can go from feeling so large
and then so small,
then realizing we matter regardless?
<Gina> Yes vajra.

<Jackie> so this all and nothing is a stage we reach?
and once we reach it, we are free of judgements?
<^Gina> usually Jackie
<Jackie> how profound

6/ Annihilation; The lower self.

Letting go and understanding that the lower self
has to go. This does not mean
that you cannot operate in a world as you once did.
I would like to see more spiritual people
take their way into the material world...
to life their truth and show by example.

<MzDream> dare to dream~
letting go of the material world....is key to happiness

Many however, leave their work
as they can no longer tolerate the materialistic attitudes
around them...such a shame...
how can we change the world
if we constantly leave it on the outside?
By example we teach.
A wise person once said...
there is no room within you for two people.
You must Master the lower one and live
from the higher one. I believe that we can only life in truth
to one master..
That Master must be the highest aspect within the self.
Why is it we fear letting go and letting God so much?

<MusProd> Is there one universal truth
or many situational ones?
<^Gina> many transcendental ones
on many different levels
but truth is always truth
It is from your level that makes it different
from another person's truth

<Jackie> we fear letting go
because we fear losing the "little self"
<^Gina> well the little ego or brain
has been in control of you all your life time
<^Gina> then you dare to change
dare to start to open to the universal self
This creates the fear from the lower self
Its sees it is losing control

7/ Consummation;

Many go through the veil
into the second and even the third degree,
rarely does one become strong enough for the fourth.
Here we have the marriage.
In alchemy it is the marriage between
the sun and moon.. between day and night...
black and white. We in essence give birth to the soul.
I believe this is the real second birth spoken about in the bible.

This is not the end.
It is just the true beginning...
for now you can become spirit in matter.
The higher self can and will be moved to work
through the lower self.

<Ligia> What are these degrees you talk about?
<^Gina> there appears to be different levels
of spiritual growth taking place
upon the planet at this time
In the days of Temples and initiates
there were also different levels
One must have past through
all that I have posted to date.
The next degree then requires
one to be out in the world to complete
their spiritual growth
we can no longer hide behind closed doors

<tharaja> can you explain how the spirit
works through the lower self?
Does the lower know it's spirit?
Or aware of it?
<^Gina> if we were speaking of chakras
here it would be the marriage between
the heart and the solar plexus
It brings the colour mixture
of gold and pink together.
One can then work in the outer world
for the good of the whole
<tharaja> ok which is gold and which is pink?
<^Gina> the solar plexus goes from yellow into gold
as one changes and goes up the ladder
The heart changes from green into pink
<^Gina> it goes from peace and love
into unconditional love
for the self and all others
the lower will exist in a subdued way

1/ Water Initiation; Control of the emotions.
We all need to control our emotions
not to kill them off
to know that we can be in total control
of them is enough

2/ Fire Initiation; Control of the body, transmute desire
The fire initiation is when one experiences kundalini

3/ Air Initiation; Out of the body, travel many worlds,
we learn to use the universal mind

4/Energy Initiation; Become a co-creator, beyond limitations
The more you use the energy to aid
and heal others the more
it will change and help you
to raise your essence to higher planes
of consciousness

<Ligia> The initiations, are they something
you choose to experience?
<Susanrose> On a conscious level,
you have not said "All right, time for a new initiation",
but you have agreed on a spirit plane.

<^Gina> I would like to say yes
however I feel that once you are upon the path
once you have gone past the needs of the lower self
then the experiences will continue
how fast you go through them is up to you
no one will tell you
nor slow you down
nor tell you what to do
it will always be your choice
after passing through the first part of the growth
maybe I should say ...that is how I experienced it

<^alex^> so the next level is where
we have gone through the initiations
and now we are in the world acting on them?
<^Gina> yes
in a way we cannot just go out into the world
even at that point
It is like we need to wait for the world to find us

<^alex^> so we quietly do our work
and the world comes to us
whether we wish it to or not?
<^Gina> right hahahaha
<^Joyful^> :)
<^Gina> :)
<basil> :)

<basil> If we accept a simple premise
that all atoms of God's universe
must return to the Source
and each of us is at a certain stage on the ladder
and each of us is reaching back to help those behind.
Including all of humanity.
<basil> And
The animal vegetable and mineral kingdoms.
Then we realize there is one path
that holds obligation for each of us.
Once we embark on the path of service.
It becomes a total commitment.
And all else follows.
<^Gina> yes
<Jackie> when humans advance,
then all the lower kingdoms can advance too?
<^Gina> yes
<basil> yes, Jackie, all of it
<^Gina> but it takes humans a long time to change :(
<Susanrose> Jackie, maybe the lower kingdoms
are further along than humans
<^Gina> hahaha Susanrose

<MzDream> I
have a wonderful poem to share....
this is written by Nancy Wood....
> I will edit for the web page,
It is called Two Worlds.

For us, there are Two Worlds of Being.
The First World is the outer world we live in,
A shell that encases the body, an attitude
That stifles the mind and pretends
That money is the measure of worth.

It is the popular world
Where everyone longs to be, yet once they arrive,
They dream of a new direction

The First World is one of wheels and destinations,
Membership dues and limitations.
The First World is where everyone lives, yet
No one actually survives.

The First World has power, but no strength.
In this world, there is success, but no mystery.
In this world, Boundaries keep ideas from colliding.

The Second World is the inner world of harmony,
Where you can go anytime your spirit aches for company.
Here you can listen to the songs of rocks and leaves and
Embrace the wisdom of rivers and essential things contained in Raindrops or a flower's belly or the earth's warm breath of spring,
In this world, beauty is companion to mystery.

This world is revealed through a rainbow's colored eyes,
Or in a spider's silver road between two leaves,
Or even in silence, the kind that follows ecstasy.
The Second World is able to survive without the First.
But the First World cannot last long without the Second.

The Second World offers meaning to existence
While the First World offers existence only.

Between these two Worlds
Lies reason, the seam that connects one World to another.

<Susanrose> thank you Mz, Gina, and all who
participated tonight.
<^Gina> thank you, good night to all!