Frontier Science:
The Communion of Materialism and Spirituality;
A Love Dance of the Energies.

<Susanrose> Happy summer solstice to you all from Pittsburgh!
For those here early, where are you from?
<David3> Huntsville, AL
<icatic> Svedala, Sweden
<^Angel^9> St.Louis, Missouri, USA
AshtarRose> I'm in Florida, and Gwynnyth is in Miami
<Sunshine- Pittsburgh
<Susanrose> Welcome Twosweet, first time here?
<TwoSweet> yes, jackson, mi, usa
<Susanrose> this is a moderated spiritual discussion
our web page is at
<TwoSweet> I know... I've been reading...
found it thru a link.
<Susanrose> Well, it is 9pm are we ready to start?
<Dwander> go for it! :)
^Joyful^ yes Susan

WE NEED to relax now
Breathe together
Breathe together, and create a group mind

Breathing deep now.
Breathe in peace
Breathe out concerns

Breathing together
Breathe in light
Breathe out fear
A Coming Together

A Group mind
All Seeking the unity of Spiritual Growth.
As we prepare to listen to others.

Breathe in.......Deep
Feeling our connection to the air, the wind
the water, the oceans

the fire and molten lava
the earth, the soil
and the pulse and hummmm of all life
in the web of GAIA, our mother, our earth.


Welcome Friends!
I am Susanrose, and for tonight's discussion, I am presenting the
Communion of Materialism and Spirituality.

Rather than a duality, or an
Either-or choice, my premise is that a balanced honoring
Of both is necessary to realize the best potentials in the
Life experience we have chosen here.

Growing up Catholic, somewhere in the bible, I remember a quote
That somehow went...
Gather not your treasures on earth, where
Rust and moths consume...
But in my humble opinion, this was taken a bit too far
in many of the world's religions.

Why not treasure all of creation?
That which is expressed in spirit and that which
Is seen in material form?
Rather than a choice, balance your treasure in ALL.
If you can picture God in oneness with the whole
Of the cosmos, then all matter in it is holy.

A few years ago, I read the series of books,
"Masters of the Far East", by Spaulding.
One of the stories that struck me in the book
Was about a guru who could bilocate.

It seems this holy adept could lay down,
appear to go to sleep, and then astral project
his soul and consciousness to another place
for weeks at a time. A devoted follower would
guard his body until his return.

When the projected
Guru landed at his destination, he did not have
to keep his ghostly appearance, but could WILLhis vibrations to match
the slower rate of the material
orld, in effect recreating a physical body that could be
seen and felt.

The thought occurred to me,
if spirit can shape shift into matter,
then is all matter just more spirit?

Has that matter assumed the purpose of it's particular
Form for whatever given period?
If so, does it have a certain intelligence or destiny
For divine unfoldment, just as we do?


<Sunshine-> I feel, that thru meditation, I can raise my vibrational level
and this connects me beautifully into a very spiritual state
one of connectedness
<^Angel^9> i believe that Gina Allan can also bilocate
that is an awesome gift
<Susanrose> the interesting thing is that the adept in the story
could actually rematerialize, not just visit in the astral
<Sunshine-> I think that the belief system of most would prohibit this
it would take a lot of DE-brainwashing to accomplish
<Dwander> yep, only a few can do true materializations....
<Susanrose> well, the apostle could walk on water,
until he looked down

<Sunshine-> it is all in the belief systems
<^Joyful^> most are familiar with fire walking today
if one can walk on hot coals without being burned
it is not much of stretch to believe in being out of the body too
<Susanrose> good point Joyful
<Dwander> belief systems function on many levels...
simply having a conscious belief is rarely enough
<Sunshine-> last night I saw the movie "Phenomenon,
he discovered that he was "one" with all matter
this reinforces the belief

Being a hard-core Democrat, ex(?) hippie and
NewAger to the bone, I have sympathies for
all kinds of causes...
Human and animal rights, save the whales,
dolphins and probably even the snail darter.
(Remember the little fish that stopped the dam project?)
I hug trees, try not to pollute, and even bought re-chargable
batteries (until I found out they don't work).
All this to protect "Life".

But what is "Life"?
All creation seems to be vibrating at different levels of
energy. Since energy can not be destroyed, then we as well
as the rest of creation have the same connection to immortality.
While this energy may leave a plant or a being, it is still in the
same plasma soup of the divine cosmos.

Since the Gaia Hypothesis, Quantum Physics,
And New Science has expanded our thinking on what
Could be termed as "alive', there is a new awareness in many.
The idea that sacredness is found in holy rocks.
Mountains, and even in grains of sand on the beach.

Come to think of it,
Aren't a lot of us into programming crystals?
The charms, amulets or talismans of the new age
could be a crystal, rose quartz,
or many varieties of stones and runes,
all expected to provide us with certain gifts.
On an atomic level, I imagine that all matter,
(Including us) looks pretty much alike. Maybe the
Divine blueprint that vibrates our nerve endings,
also vibrates that which we have previously
considered "Non living", only playing a different tune.

The following is paraphrased from a web site
quoting Shahriar Shahriari,

It does not really matter where science starts,
because eventually it will lead to the same place -
the mystery of Life, the Universe and everything in it.

Today's new breed of mystics, comprising quantum physicists, cyberneticists,
molecular biologists, mathematicians and computer scientists,
have all largely explored the depths of frontier sciences
and have somehow been introduced to the ONENESS of it all.

Physicists are telling us that the observer affects the observation.
Science is showing that we no longer perform objective
experiments. Instead, we participate in subjective experiments because our minds,
thoughts and expectations will bring the
results we expect.

In other words, we as human beings, with the quality of our thoughts,
from our explicate existence, can affect and re-write the implicate order which,
in turn, will create a new reality,

So science is describing the universe as the dance of quantum energy
based on the symphony of thought and consciousness.
It is only through the communion of Science and Spirit that
each one may be understood and experienced.

Across all continents, God is associated with light. And the Bible tells us
literally, actually and clearly in John 1:5, "God is light."
And yet, the Divine is more than an impersonal non feeling kind of
light we get when we flip our light switch.

I like to consider it
more like the hope we feel when we talk about "the light at the
end of our tunnel". Also, remember that those who have survived a
near death experience have told us that at the end of that tunnel,
the light is peace, love, joy, bliss that passes all understanding.
The light is filled with the comfort and reunion of HOME.

Here is a quote from another web site I explored was called
The Revealing Science of God.

Here are some of the most significant aspects of light that we have learned:

A very important aspect of light is that it is the foundation of all time.
If you took a clock and were on a spaceship
and wound up being accelerated to the point that you were
traveling exactly at the speed of light, your clock would stop.
There is no time within the realm of absolute light.
This is completely consonant with the understanding that God is eternal and outside
of all time and space.

Light is pure energy. We know
through Einstein's theories of relativity, that the mass of an object
is directly related to it's speed. The mystical equation, E=MC2,
simply states that the total energy in a system equals it's mass
times the speed of light squared.

In other words, light is pure energy.
Energy can change and mass can change
but they will always be related in terms of the speed of light.
In other words if you take pure energy and you slow it down
it begins to become matter.

And if you take matter and speed it up then it's
energy as it approaches the speed of light becomes freed.
These results have led scientists to make a startling conclusion,
that energy and matter are different sides of the
same coin!

So the "what" of the universe is God. The entire universe is simply God.

There is much Biblical and scientific evidence to support this.
But, it still makes people very nervous. Mankind currently is
much more comfortable thinking of God as being utterly separate
and apart from mankind. It makes people uncomfortable to think that they might,
in fact, be part of God's mind.

Sunshine- likes being part of God's mind
<Susanrose> if you knew sunshine, there is no doubt :)
<Sunshine-> during meditation, I sometimes become one with all
"God" is love peace joy. All can be part of us

<deGoanna> why drag the bible into this?
<Susanrose> deG: there are a few gems in there...
AshtarRose would like to see the original Bible and
not the re-written one we have now
<Susanrose> Ashtar, I have enjoyed reading channeled gospels
and even gnostic gospels for comparison. A good one is
The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ by Levi.
<icatic> i never liked the idea that there was a God outside
everything watching over us
I very much feel this is right, God is everything,
we are all a part of God :o)
<Susanrose> I love the Bette Midler song,
In a distance, but the lyrics still insist that God is "out there"
I would rather sing a song about God is out there, AND
in here, and everywhere
<AshtarRose> or god/ess hehe :) we're all one
<Sunshine-> very true
<Susanrose> I like to call "The Divine"= God/Goddess/ALL THAT IS
<Sunshine-> it is sure a different picture than the one I grew up with:
God would punish me if I was bad

I liked this quote from
Spiritual science is
the science of perceiving from wholeness--feeling with the mind;
the art of thinking the world together--sensing with the heart.

From another web site on "Scientific Pantheology":

Philosophical materialism has nothing to do with materialism in the
sense of consumerism or the desire to amass material possessions.
Philosophical materialism means simply the belief that everything that
exists is matter. It is a form of oneness- that is, it holds that all
things are formed from the same kind of stuff

Science is by nature materialist: that is, it assumes that everything
that happens can be explained in terms of the dynamics of matter and

There is nothing base about matter. Matter never ceases to astonish us
in the complexity and variety of its properties.
No matter is dead. All matter is brilliantly alive,
ready to take on an infinity of new forms.

There is nothing more mysterious than matter itself, its raw existence and
presence. Consider the photon. It is never emitted or recorded
except as a particle, yet in between it often behaves as a wave

Come down again to earth. Hold a pebble in your hand and feel its
solidity. Why is it there at all? Things simply exist.
Their sheer existence is and always will be mysterious.
And it is in that mystery the we can find divinity.

<Sunshine-> well said
<Susanrose> thanks sunshine
<AshtarRose> :)

A Poem by Pablo Nerulda,
Which follows, embraces not only matter in the original forms,
but things that have been shaped by humans.

"Ode to Common Things" (edited)

I have a crazy, crazy love of things.
I like pliers and scissors, I love cups, rings, and bowls.
Not to speak of course, of hats.
I love all things, not just the grandest,

Also the infinitely small...
Thimbles, spurs, plates and flower vases.
Oh yes, the planet is sublime, it is full of pipes weaving
Hand held through tobacco smoke

And keys and salt shakers.
Every little thing that is made by the hand of man.
Shaply shoes and fabric
Remakable tables, ships and stairwells.

I love ALL things, not because they are passionate or sweet smelling.
But because ....I don't know
Because this ocean is yours and it's mine.

Glasses, knives, and scissors,
they all bear the trace of someone's fingers
On their handle or their surface.
The trace of a distant hand, lost in the depths of forgetfulness.

I pause in houses, streets and elevators, touching things,
Identifying objects that I secretly covet.
This one because it rings,
That one because it is soft,

well as soft as the softness of a woman's hip,
and that one there for it's deep sea color,
and that one there for it's velvet feel.

Oh irrevocable river of things!
No one can say that I loved only
fish, or the plants of the jungle, and the field.
That I loved only those things that leap and climb,
desire and survive.
It's not true.

Many things conspire to tell me the WHOLE story.
No only do they touch me,

or my hand touch them
They were so close, that they were a part of my being.
They were so alive with me, that they lived half my life,
And will die half my death.

<Sunshine-> Wonderful!!!!
<deGoanna> true

Finally, I will share with you what was spontaneously
given to my meditation group. 18 different messages such
as this are located at
This one is about the purpose of physical earthly life.

I am the Mother of the physical earthly existence.
I am seen in the trees, the woods,
the groves, and the hills.
I need no promises made,
regarding your afterlife.

I only need joy pleasure, devotion, appreciation,
and thanksgiving for the beautiful blue marble that you
souls have been so privileged to walk upon.

In all the universe,
there is not an opportunity such as this.
You are spirits engaged in this wonderful experiment.
An opportunity to see the physical being raised
to divine proportions.

We who are Mother and Father of the physical existence
believe and trust and know that this is so.
But you who choose our path must believe it also.

The joy and the promise and the evolution
of what this planet was designed to become,
It will be fulfilled with all of us working together.

There has been a falsehood sold to many of you,
over the centuries,
This is the falsehood, let me run it by you:

Do not value priceless gift of life here on Earth,
but look for it in the heavens,
in the world without form, in the world of spirit .

My Sons and Daughters,
you already were spirit
before you chose to take on your fleshly robes.
You are here to raise flesh to divine proportions.

You are not here to leave flesh, to return to spirit.
For then why would you choose to take up this
form in the first place ?
We are here to joyfully bring spirit and the material
plane together

Hear the hum of creativity and procreation.
Use that hum of creativity and procreation
between your own masculine and feminine aspects
to hum out a merry tune.
Whistle while you work.

Please allow yourself to be uplifted and reassured,
in the knowledge that what you do in your work,
whether its for pay or pleasure,
your love made visible will raise fleshly existence
to divine proportions.

None will consider this place of prison.
None will say that we are in a cave seeing darkly.
It will be the glory of the universe.

Souls will travel here to see how we did it!
This is our mission.
This is our quest.

A tool and a gift to be taken seriously is the bliss found
When the masculine and feminine are in harmony.

As Paul Mc Cartney said,
"some people think there's enough silly love songs.
but what's wrong with that, I'd like to know?".
and I'd like to know that too.
There's nothing wrong with that!

Fall in love, over and over and over again.
Fall in love with what you do.
Fall in love with who you are.

Fall in love with your friends, your community, your lovers.
Fall in love anew every day ,
and sing your silly love songs.
Heaven will be seen on Earth.
Together we will make flesh divine.

<Susanrose> I might also mention this reminds me
of the movie "Never Ending Story".
<AshtarRose> I know that one well :)
<Susanrose> The creativity of the imagination in creation
is what was needed to save their world.
<daysi> The storyteller's creed says,
"I believe that imagination is stronger than knowledge ".

<Susanrose> THANK YOU all for coming tonight.

<David3> thanks Susan
More and more scientific thinking evolves to support
what the sages have said throughout the ages.
It seems to support more and more a universal and evolving energy
(consciousness if you will) that changes and transforms
as each of us, each a unique being, make the choices in our lives.
Again, very nice discussion.
<icatic> sleep well everyone, love and light :o)
<gwynnyth> thank you Susanrose : )
bright blessings to all
<TwoSweet> thanks Susan
<^Joyful^> thank you SusanRose